ATTENTION SPION!!!

[acerimmer]

I have not much time to write the long detailed answer that is possibly required to both the stratego and spion postings........so I will keep this short.

I will reserve the long post for a time when I can freely write the detailed reply your posts require.

Quick points are:

To Stratego: I think this rule needed talking about......not merely because of Del's family connection.

Although this rule may suit the admin.......it is still not fair.......but I appreciate you and oggy taking action to help resolve future problems.

To Spion: You bring up some very interesting points..........the ways in which someone may try to cheat the system never really crossed my mind.........thanks for bringing these up.

One thing that helped bring this subject up is the fact that I have recently (only since january) been subject to many disconnections here on gravon. It was never really a problem before..........I could probably count the amout of times on one hand......that I had been disconnected in the last 2 years.(until january)
I had only 1 time actually lost a game because I could not get back within the 15 mins time limit in 2 years.
In the past month I have lost connection over 30 times and on 2 occasions I could not get back within the allocated 15 mins.
Does this have anything to do with the new log in system?
I do not know.......but the new pop up windows which constantly flash across the screen are not helping. They are a nuisence and both slow down the computer and the re connection. At one point during one game......I had over 15 separate windows of gravon open at the same time......as they would not close and every time I tried to exit (to come back)..........gravon would not respond and would only send more popup windows.

On one occasion my actual connection went down...... but all the other times........I lost connection .....even though all my other browsing windows worked fine.

Hopefully this is just a blip........but around 5 discons (1 above 15mins) in 2 years.........up to OVER 30.....in less than 30 days.......(including 2 above 15mins) is an UNUSAL change.

Anyone else been having problems with losing connection this month?

I know delboy has.......more than usual.....but some has been his connection.....while others....he losers connection to gravon with all browser facities working fine........and comes back on a few minutes later.

[ruben87]

Delboy, as I said already, the game is played sorry. I fully agree with Stratego en spion's posts.

[acerimmer]

deleted - insulting

[delboy]

HEY if you think i have done it to try and cheat then you are totally wrong ruben!!
You can ask anybody that i play fair and that i dont leave during a game and then not come back to finish the game.
I have only once not come back and that game was against you (but that was disconnection problems)

I have played alot better players than you, and have been losing badly and i have always stayed till the end......so why would i leave and not come back when playing the likes of you AND when it was a pretty even game?

Are you a psychic? because you seem certain you would of won with that extra scout you had
I played only the other day at duell and i was a miner and a spy down but i still won!
So their no way you would know if you would of won!
Your just holding on to your precious win because your scared i would kick your ass usually
_________________
He who dares...wins!

[skywalker]

hi guys,

i think the disconnection rule is a good thing and doesn't have to be discussed.
normally if somebody got disconnected and wasn't able to reconnect he asks for deleting and his opponent will agree... as i said normally, if the opponent is (as many players on gravon are) a gentleman.

well... as ruben scruben proved it many times... he's not...

[giovedi]

I don't know Ruben well enough to call him names but this kind of ignorant selfish bureaucrat-like behaviour speaks for itself.
Ruben, you often like to post senseless comments on other peoples topics, may I be so frank to use a familiar dutch-comment on this? : Pfffffffffffffffffffff
_________________
Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter.
Try Again. Fail again. Fail better!

[delboy]

yes i agree with sky and giovedi on their posts!

DelBoy
_________________
He who dares...wins!

[stratego]

to all,

wowowo - please calm down.

ruben was ask - he give his answere - thats it.

noone called delboy a cheater - noone calls ruben unsportive.
he followed a rule - over and out. even if you dont agree, there is no need
to start a fight.

maybe some saw, that ruben agrees in an other case just before this
starts. he was asked - he agrees - the game was deleted.

also i posted, that others please stay out of the topic - its between the 2 players and i didnt saw any posting which helps.

stratego

[giovedi]

Stratego:
I find it quite irritating to ask us "others" to stay out of this topic, to say the least.
I mean on the one hand you're complaining about the lack participation here
then again you don't want to let us express our opinion about a matter that could have happened to all of us.

I mean, this is a message-board where the gravonians have the opportunity to communicate and to discuss things, isn't it?

So why should this particular topic be a private matter between ruben and delboy? Sure it concerns them directly but none of them has asked us to keep it private or to stay out of it and I'd very much like to know why you do...
As long as we'll act in a polite manner I see no reason at all, but again, you're making the rules...
_________________
Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter.
Try Again. Fail again. Fail better!

[stratego]

hi gioverdi,

hmm, i cannot believe that you dont understand, but ok...

i just want to stop a new fight. as far as the postings include any facts or
a generell discusion, i see no problem. but to use an unfinished game
between 2 players for insulting or calling one of them unsportive, goes to
far.

and you just hit the main point: its between the 2 players.
none of the other postings show any facts. but feel free to post a generell
discussion without using user names.

stratego

[giovedi]

Hi Stratego,

I've read loads of similar topics, clearly related to two specific persons. Nevertheless the admins and moderators let other users express their opionions without asking them to stay out of it.

As I said before, as long as there's no insulting going on I cannot understand your asking.
Do you really believe it would be best if things will be left unspoken?
Give it a little space otherwise this might turn out to backfire in the long run.

And why does it have to end in a fight?
If we're all given the chance to participate I see it as a chance to contribute something constructive (perhaps even a solution) to the problem.

Anyway I said what I had to say about this problem, I just felt irritated about you wanting to keep us out of it.

Cheers.

BTW: Mein-Name-ist-Giovedi not..verdi
_________________
Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter.
Try Again. Fail again. Fail better!

[stratego]

hi giovedi,

yes in past we did it and most of the times it ends in a fight.

within this threat we must delete some postings - its still done - and
thats why i try to calm down the discussion.

we have different meanings and opinions - thats it. i answere your question, but mean all user in this threat - not specially you.

space fo a generell discussion is more than enough.

stratego

[acerimmer]

Like it or not Stratego.

The players at gravon (the vast majority, anyway) dislike unsporting behaviour. In most peoples minds.......this is an unsporting act. The dictionary definition proves this is correct.

Protecting unsporting acts (however minor) is showing disrespect to the majority of players on gravon.
I am not asking for you to change any rule......(although giving the yes/no deletion of games to admins would be better than waiting in vain for an unsporting player to ignore a request for mutual deletion.)
What I do ask is that you allow players to freely speak their minds about something that "could happen to them".
If feelings get a little tempered.......this is because we do not like to see this behaviour.
This is the third time for ruben in under 1 month.

Either ruben thinks he is going to win the game or he is stealing a win. Any honest person would think about the game objectively..........but not ruben.

Stop protecting him.

He chose this own path.

So don't blame me for standing up against injustices.

Try taking on the bad guys, not the people who dislike seeing these unsporting acts.

Fair enough........you want to allow....these players to take wins when, they are not winning.
BUT do not expect the good people of gravon to sit back and get quietly shafted. If someone has done you wrong........the least we deserve is to have the freedom to complain about this.

[spion]

Hi,

this post expresses my personal opinion:

I don't really think ruben is unsportive. If you take a look back to the thread "Apology to ruben87", ruben agreed to remove a game without any discussion. He thought that his opponent was in a leading position and so offered to remove the game.

Now another opponent got disconnected but this time ruben is thinking he had an advantage in the game and so does not agree to remove the win.

So in my opinion i don't think ruben can be called unsportive.
He claims his win because having an advantage and his opponent left the game (wheter disconnected or not). In my opinion thats ok and it matches the disconnection rule.

Since he doesn't personally know his opponent (i guess), he can't even be sure that it has been a disconnect after all. And thats why the disconnection rule has been invented - there never is a proof for internet or pc problems. If we now start to call every player "unsportive" who claims his win according to this rule and so more or less force him to agree to removing the win because he would get a disrepute if not, the rule would become senseless.

And after all, i doubt that acting according the rules can be called unsportive. You can call the rule unsportive. But as i mentioned earlier, there are no really good alternatives.

Best regards
spion

[stratego]

hi ace,

again, you cannot call a player unsportive if he goes by the rule.
maybe he shout agree to the deleting - but he decide different and thats
ok. we dont have a better rule for a discon.

but it is unsportive to call a player unsportive, if he goes by the rules. (this is also incl. in the isf rules)

This is the third time for ruben in under 1 month.

i saw his answere to tableplay - hmm good sportmanship - or do you see
this different? hope not!

Stop protecting him.

i dont protect him - i protect players who go by the rules and when they do
it - they are called unsportive.

So don't blame me for standing up against injustices.
Try taking on the bad guys, not the people who dislike seeing these unsporting acts.

i dont blame you - i just want the facts. but even if you protect your
brother - you cannot insult here. this is the most unsportive behaviour.
we must delete one post - another was removed. please stop this.

if you want to post your meaning - do it in a fair way. i said it: enough
space for a generell discussion, but without insults.

stratego