Believe what you want, gravonians

[sadistic]

Since gravon is not allowing me to respond to the false accusations and nonsense being written about me, I am not going to waste my time posting. My posts are being deleted as quickly as I put them up. Gravonians will have to enjoy low level writing from this point on. Time reveals the truth and gravonians will see reality soon enough.

[art]

These are worth saving
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Sadistic
Alter Hase


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 267
Location: New York, USA Posted: Dec.13.2004 01:04 Post subject: What makes a great stratego player?



It is a shame that Wussy or Lion is not writing this post. Perhaps it would then have more merit. But since they won't "spill the beans" it is up to us, relative bottom feeders to take over the subject. I am requesting that any members here put in their opinion or insight they may have. Here are my personal thoughts on the subject.
1) good setup strategy- This advantage begins before the first move is even made.
2) being able to figure out opponents setup before he realizes you know and/or before he figures out yours.
3) Assuming everything else is somewhat equal it takes only a 2 piece advantage to seal a games fate. One or 2 tricks making your opponent think your key piece is elsewhere can get you that 2 piece advantage.
4) Being able to recover from having the wrong setup for that specific opponents setup. For example, your opponent comes in the left side with his 1 but your spy is nowhere near. How fast can you recover and prevent the game from getting away from you?
5) being able to win even at a disadvantage. The best players simply have more tools in their boxes to use in order to pull out the win.
6) knowing when to be aggressive and when not to
7) knowing how to defend oneself on your end while still implementing an offensive on your opponent's territory.
8 - being able to know what your opponent is thinking
9) Knowing how best to take advantage of information you receive of your opponents pieces.
Anybody please post up your ideas to add to this. I think it would interest us all. Many of us would especially appreciate responses from those players in the top 10 or so.

Last edited by Sadistic on Dec.15.2004 03:43, edited 2 times in total
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Myst
Newbie


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 5 Posted: Dec.13.2004 05:54 Post subject: Some thoughts



Good Stratego players will typically never share how they think. It's the only advantage anyone has. The best way to learn is to play opponents that are far better than you are and watch how they beat you, then think about it. You'll pick up on it soon enough. However, in the interests of making you a better player I'll chip in a couple of cents.

First to respond to your bullets:

1) I agree completely. A good setup is key.
2) I agree this is helpful, but it is often not necessary or practical against better opponents as they will decieve you at all times, even when you think you know what is going on.
3) You are right about tricking the enemy. That is the game. Keep focusing on this area. You typically won't get a two piece power advantage on a skilled player with everything else staying equal though, and a two piece power advantage is not enough if he has advantages in other areas.
4) I don't worry about this too much. The bottom line is your opponent doesn't know what anything is. If your spy is on the other side so what? Play it out and make him think it is near. Or don't do anything. His own fear is your best ally.
5) I agree. Those tools are what you need to acquire and it comes mostly from experience.
6) Ditto.
7) Ditto.
Ditto. This will come mostly from experience with that particular player though. It is also why you probably won't get a lot of insightful responses to this post from better players.

I would add these points (most of them expounding on your point 5):

1) There are three key variables to keep in mind while playing Stratego: Information, Material (number/mix of pieces left on the board) and Power (rank of top pieces on the board). They are important probably in that order, although Material and Power are close.

2) Information is everything. Inexperienced players will often equate a power advantage with winning. These players will get up by a cap or two or a major and they think they can hold on till the end. Skilled players will play for information. It's ok to lose a cap or two or a major or even a col early in the game if you get quality info. Here is a simple trick: Start the game by hitting everything that moves with a cap. The opponent will kill him probably with a maj (if he kills it with something higher you got cheap info). You have a col nearby. You chase the maj and kill it. If he is bluffing you got a maj (good for you). If he kills the col you have your info and still got the maj. If he kills it with marsh he is at a huge disadvantage, especially early in the game. Now he must fear your gen which can strike at will, but he is not free to use his gen on you because your marsh is still hidden. You should be able to attack with your gen and kill a piece or two before he trades. Then you attack with your other col and get another piece or two before he trades. Now it is your marsh against his marsh and col. He has a slight power advantage (remember you are still up a maj), but you have an info advantage and probably a material advantage. Of course there are different ways to play it out, but this will get you thinking. Now, if he had killed your col with his gen things are not so easy, but you still have good info, he is still down a maj, and his gen is now a liability since he doesn't know your marsh.

3) Bomb locations are also important info. Remember, he only has six. Once you find them all you can strike at will. Actually your odds of surviving a blind strike go up dramatically after finding 3 or 4. If an opponent puts bombs on the front row it is a great thing for you because he is giving away precious info. If you find more than one bomb early in the game it is not a bad idea to start looking for the others. Once they are exposed your high ranks can plow at will. Many inexperienced players are scared to hit an unmoved piece and will even accuse you of playing the lottery if you do it with anything higher than a serg. Now I'm not suggesting you play kamakazi tactics, but certainly it is not a bad idea to start a game by plowing a cap through unknown/unmoved territory (I have seen better players do it with a maj although I'm usually not that brave). Just think about that. What is the worst thing that can happen? He blows up? Who cares if it is early? At least you found a bomb and have some insight into his set. If he kills it with a maj you can use the col tactic above. It's also very likely you will kill a couple of small pieces before the cap dies.

4) Liabilities are good things for your opponents to have (from your perspective). Don't be scared to lose a piece. If the opponent shows a maj or a col or even gen that piece becomes something important that he must protect. You can now play with his head and watch how he responds. Much can be learned from this. btw: This is what I did to you in our game. You had the power advantage, but were riddled with liablities. You were mad at me for not coming at you when I had the info, but what good is to rush in and trade and leave you with unopposed high ranks? I had to test you and bleed you. And that is what happened.

5) It bears repeating: Information is everything.

6) Always think about what your opponent will see as the game progresses. Build your setup accordingly and move your pieces during the game accordingly. Also, position some high stuff in wierd places. Now you must be prepared if he calls your bluffs, so skill and thought is required. You can never be sure how an opponent will respond to a situation. Just remember, he doesn't know a thing about your set, he just knows what he thinks he knows, and THAT is where you play the game.

It's late and I'm running out of gas so I'll stop here. I hope it helps. There is of course much more that can be said about the game.
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Sadistic
Alter Hase


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 267
Location: New York, USA Posted: Dec.13.2004 06:18 Post subject:



Excellent post and I agree with most of what you said. I don't agree with you entirely in your scenario in #2. For one thing he can attack your 4's with his 3 with near reckless abandon. What is the worst that can happen? You will end up even. You will take his 3 but now he has your 4 and the information of your Marshall's whereabouts. He can also take a 4 without losing his 3 which is even worse. You make a valid point. Information is key. But at what price? What is the threshold of your ability to find information at this price and still pull out a win? That is where one must measure his risks. Thank you for your input. It is very interesting and thoughtful for you to share your thoughts. I enjoyed it very much. I am sure others will. Now I can only hope some others will put in a little cash as well!

[esquire]

I agree that was a good strand.

[Rockyraccoon]

I agree!

These post showcase Alex at his best! I'd love to see more of these type post from him.
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from my flybox to yours!

[-deleted129]

[esquire]

I was there Wussy. It was a good game. I mostly allow watching for others too. And it is really nice when the game is discussed between opponents after the game is played.

There are not any "secrets" in this game. From what I have learned, it is whether you are familiar with the type of situation you are in. If you recognize the situation and learn from the mistakes you made the last time you were faced with it, you should prevail. Experience is better than anything another player on here could ever teach you, in my opinion.

A tip for anyone who cares: Many of the good Europeans have taught me an important thing. First, even if you are down a Colonel or Major you can still easily win. Even if you are down two pieces you have a good chance to win still. The problem comes when you are down three pieces and you cannot do anything to change the situation. But to my point, if you attack a side during the game and trade down pieces, you eventually will figure out their stronghold and high pieces. When this happens you have free reign to attack anywhere else on the board. This is very nice when a lot of pieces have moved already—but the thing to do is wait for a lot of pieces to move before you start attacking the vicinity where you are trying to find their stronghold.

For instance, you are chasing a colonel with you marshal—but your opponent does not know it is your marsh. You trap it in a corner, and then attack around it until your opponent moves his marshal to help out, when this happens attack the other side. The worse thing that can happen is you lose your marshal to a spy, but if you get good info, you are in the driver’s seat to win.

I didn’t describe this the best I could, I apologize. But you all get what I am saying. The person that utilized this tactic and told me how to do it is the champ of a country in Europe currently. I actually had a major on the left side. He came down with his marshal and a colonel and attacked. I had my marsh in the middle so I did not go aid—there was no way to help out. He eventually took out my major, spy, and something else. I tried to attack with mygeneral, but his general was waiting and if I traded I would lose the advantage I had in the middle (especially since he could not defend the middle with his marshall on my left side), so I brought my marshal and took his general, and he followed by taking my marshall with his spy. Even though this puts me down the marshall and a major (the one I lost on the left side)--I have the advantage now in the middle. So now I advanced up the middle with my general, caught all the moved pieces, and trapped the others with my two colonels (remember his other colonel is on my left side--so I have an advantage with colonels too). Eventually the game became even in my eyes. I was up a general and major, he was up the marshal, but I didn’t have my spy. It was a good game but it would not have been if I sat passively by and allowed him to eat up all my peices on my left side (he had to eventually retreat with his marshall to stop me from eating up his peices). The most important part of the game was NOT TO TRADE GENERALS. My marshal never could advance because of his spy, so it was a good move on my part. I see many beginner players rush up the middle with their general once the marshal is known and the opponent trades (and then the opponent will trade all pieces until you are in a losing position)—and frankly, I think that is a big mistake.

Respond and tell me what you think. Hope this helps some out.

[-deleted439]

Your example was great. I tend to think of this more broadly in terms of keeping the game "asymetrical". The point is to sacrifice power (in your example your marsh) to knock the opponent off balance and take advantage of a tactical situation. Power is not necessarily the most important thing. It is important to note that this can be done at many different times in many different situations and with different mixes of pieces.

[Gaius_Marius]

I pretty much just came here for Sadistic's posts. Since he doesn't post anymore there isn't much reason to come here.

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Der Kommandant!

[esquire]

If that is the only reason you come here, then I guess we will not miss much.

Just kidding man.