Kleir Rating System is Worthless

johnnyblood · User Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 28

How do you win 9 straight games, including a win over Leto ranked in the top 3, and earn 0 points in the Kleir system? That's right - no points at all! Granted, the other wins were against opponents ranked well below me, as I play all comers, but this ranking system is pathetic. There should be no way to win 9 straight games against anyone and not gain 1 measly point. How ridiculous.

OGETARTS · Posted: 08.07.2005 18:43 Post subject:

I understand your frustrations, CK. Kleier's rating system is very different and there are things I don't like about it, but overall it's not bad.

You have TWO things working against you....

1.) You have played over 450 games so your ranking won't move much even if you do have several wins in a row. The more games you play, the less your ranking will move.

2.) You are ranked very high in the ranking system (#20 - 1631) so you will have to do more than someone ranked lower to increase your ranking (does that make sense?). If you were somewhere between 1000 and 1100 and had 9 wins in a row, you'd probably move up a lot more.

Also, I have noticed you move up quicker if you have two very good wins in a row (example you win against leto and your next opponent is Wussy and you win that one also).

I hope I didn't confuse you. Maybe some of the European players can add some of their thoughts. Most of them are more familiar with Kleier's rating system.

Thanks,

OGE

acerimmer · Posted: 08.07.2005 19:14 Post subject: kleiner system!

hi

The kleiner system is excellant at defining one's true rank on gravon.
It is alot better than the wsc system....although i am higher in every event on wsc compared with kleiner.

I have been in the top 10 on the wsc ratings for classic....but that is just a short term form guide.
The true test of a persons rank is kleiner!

I know it has its draw backs.....Mainly the fact that the more games you play....the harder it is to move anywhere fast.
Which for some people who play loads every day......could be hard.

In my opinion the best ranking system we have is kleiner 2005......which would give this years current ranking ability!
Obviously if you play amazing for 1 month and win 30 games straight......and beat every top player.......(in lets say November time)
this would be pain in the a$$....if you played a couple of thousand games...and your ranking hardly moved.
BUT....its still the best and most accurate ranking system!

Maybe if we had a additional quarterly kleiner ranking system.......say ...SPRING2005, SUMMER2005, AUTUMN2005 ETC
that might help you and others who play SO many games.
But kleiner is the best system!

Ace

johnnyblood · User Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 28

Much thanks for the above comments.

First to address Ogetarts' comments:

He states "You have played over 450 games so your ranking won't move much even if you do have several wins in a row. The more games you play, the less your ranking will move."

I understand, Ogetarts, that my ranking will not move much even if I have several wins in a row. But I did not move AT ALL. Absolutely no change. 1630 pts before the 1st win, 1630 after the 9th. That is not the same as not moving much. Wouldn't you agree?

Addressing AceRimmer's comments:

He states "I know it has its draw backs.....Mainly the fact that the more games you play....the harder it is to move anywhere fast."

I would say not moving at all is more than it being harder to move anywhere fast. It is pretty much - not moving.

You also state that Kleir is the best system and is accurate, but you offer no reasons whatsoever for backing up this statement. I think chocolate ice cream is the best flavor too. But can I prove it is the best flavor?

One must consider another aspect here. I am sure I earned some points, though I don't know how many, when I beat the higher ranked leto. But now, since I have the same pts as before the 9 game win streak, I must presume I won those other 8 games and lost points in the process. Could someone please explain this to me as I find that totally absurd.

In conclusion, Kleir is not only a poor system, it is totally horrible and inaccurate.

baffi · User Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 25

maybe its possible to create a kleier ranking that only checks the last 300 games or so?

sadistic · Posted: 08.07.2005 23:07 Post subject:

Any ranking system that does not place me in the top 5 is faulty. Lets be real, shall we? The more games you play, the more points you deserve for each win, not vice versa! The players like myself and CK who play often, take on all comers. Many of the other high ranked players use aliases because they do not want to disrupt their pretty ranking. The players who play more often and do not hide with alias names are taking more risk because the competition becomes more accustomed to their style of game. I agree with CK. I have a new phrase that should be implemented at gravon immediately; Kleier blows, Sadistic rules. Repeat that 10 times before a public crowd and you might just earn yourself a membership into my fan club. Now wouldn't that be something?

esquire · Posted: 09.07.2005 03:54 Post subject:

Umm the WSC ranking takes the last 60 games. Are either of you in the top 10 there. If not, you would not be in top 10 in any system. And who is hiding behind aliases? CK? He was banned for it from what I heard. Now he is blue now, so I guess that was just a rumor.

But I agree with CK on his getting no points. That is kind of lame. I get 1 single point for beating a top 5 player....LOL. But there is nothing I can do about it, why complain forever about it--Spion said before, "If you design a new system, he will use it-if it provides fair and accurate results."

All ranking systems seem to be faulty, but what can you do?

And the alias thing is under control now--Unless you know of anyone still cheating? Hmmm?

OGETARTS · Posted: 09.07.2005 04:26 Post subject:

Here is an interesting topic I found while searching the message forum. Please read Hermann's comments about the rating system.

http://www.gravon.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=151&highlight=kleier

Thanks,

OGE

johnnyblood · User Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 28

Esquire,

As far as the top 10 goes, I don't chase rankings here because the Kleir rankings are meaningless. As many can attest, I play quite a number of games in a wild and crazy style just for the fun of it. I have been ranked #1 in the past in the old WSC, here (though not for very long), as well as at meta. How many can lay claim to that?

So stop niggling me and address the issues. You just can't have an accurate ranking system where you win 9 straight and gain 0 points. Also, the WSC does not just take into account just the last 60 games.

esquire · Posted: 09.07.2005 07:09 Post subject:

I didn't say you are not good. And I agreed that you should have gotten points. My point was that you should come up with a new system if you do not like this one.