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Quarter finals - pairings
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fks
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Joined: 04 Dec 2017
Posts: 30

PostPosted: 04.05.2018 20:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

spion wrote:
Hi fks,

fks wrote:
"in case of a 2-2 tie additional matches are played until there is a winner."

"6 points for win, 3 for a draw and 1 for a loss. Each matchup within a group will be 1 game"


you have a point here. Indeed the term "match" was not defined. You interpret the term as being the same as "game", a single game of Stratego. That view is supported by the rule you quoted.
I on the other hand interpreted the term "match" in contrast to the term "game" as a sequence of games, more precisely as the set of games that have to be played between to players until one scores the necessary amount of points (>= 2).

There is another rule that supports the interpretation of "match" as a sequence of games:

Quote:
a player can only play one match at the mandority date

in case that a player has to play more than 1 game at the mandority date, he loses all games


Here the terms "match" and "game" are used in the same sentence.

I googled around a little bit for "game match difference". In fact, several web pages support the view of the term "match" as a sequence of "game"s. For example the tourney rules of Magic, The Gathering (a card game):

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Match

Another example: Tennis. Tennis defines that a match consists of several sets and a set consists of several games, so as a consequence, a match is a series of games.

https://www.englishforums.com/English/TennisGameMatch/dlkgh/post.htm

And obviously, Swordfish followed the same interpretation: A match is a set of games.

So as a consequence for the next tourney, the term should be defined clearly.

Former tourneys played on Gravon always followed the rule that a player not being there at an appointment gets a loss for the full "match" = all games to be played between two players in the same round. That also follows rules used at live tournaments: If a player doesn't show up, he looses the round (or even gets disqualified).

I think the whole problem was caused by a series of misunderstandings. Assuming only one game to be played at an appointment, leaving without a word, interpretation of the term "match" and so on. If you would have made your posting earlier i guess some things could have been prevented.

The problem always is the same: If a member of the tourney organization takes part of the tourney as a player, something goes wrong and a decision has to be made, things get complicated. Thats the reason for Ruka's idea and i support that.

Best regards,
Thorsten



[/url]


Hi Spion thank you for your reply.

I have made these arguments to Dieter when the decision was being made and they fell on a deaf ear. I am sure he still has the log of the chat if he is willing to show you.

As for what you said about in previous tournaments you would lose the series of games for missing one game. This is a pretty dumb. We had to play at least 2-4 games in one week just for this one series of games. Most of us in this tournament are in other ones as well.

Swordfish was very fast to cry and claim a win with out it even be the deadline. Shows to the character he is when he is playing the #1 rated player on Gravon #2 tournament rated player in the world. #2 rated player on s.com. #1 Greek player. This was just a play by swordfish to try and steal a win from an unbeatable opponent.
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stratego
Chief-Admin


Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1123
Location: Germany

PostPosted: 04.05.2018 21:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi fks,

things are getting a little strange here.

we spoke about match and game in one of our talks and i gave you the same
interpretation. in the end we came to the conclusion, that we could use "series of games"
in next rules. but it was clear, that "match" stands for
more than one game. we always used them in that way in past tourneys.

and i didnt miswrote the rules. i offered our old tourney rules and after
some changes, made by the orga team, i just did all the work to put them
at gravopedia. (ater they were verified by the orga team)
but rules could be complete different. (i would never use a 1-0,5-0 system)
and wanted 2 games in group stage against one player, but orga was free
to change that.

about swordfish:
i know how much you dislike swordfish, but even after several attemps to confince me
i can only repeat rukas answere. we dont care if players have a history at
other sides, as long as they respect our rules. you can try it again and
again, but that does not turn wrong to right.
so please stop posting, that he cries, is a bad player and is banned etc etc.

about usa tourneys:
do you really think that we change decisions because we could get some
more players? i mean....do you really think that?
you asked me if you could use gravon for your tourneys and i offer all my
help and experience for tourneys at gravon. but feel free to play at other
sides. these kind of arguments dont work here.

and please dont post wrong content. i listen to all argues and discussions.
but its allowed to have a different point of view. you just dont allow others
to have their own opinion.

by the way, i did not have the impression during our several nice
discussions that you were shocked. it sounds very dramatic in your posting.

Stratego
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playa1
Fortgeschrittener


Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 82

PostPosted: 05.05.2018 00:45    Post subject: Freddy VS playa Reply with quote

Hi Hielco,

You have not yet replied to my availability post, but I hope we can still play our quarter final Sunday evening? I started this tourney to practise against good opponents (which you are) for the upcoming live WC, so can we just play our games and have fun? Then the player that proceeds to the semi final can await the final conclusion of all discussions. And maybe set an example.

Greets,
Tim
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freddykrueger
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Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 28

PostPosted: 05.05.2018 16:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi playa,
i can monday 18.00 gmt
sunday is not good for me,sorry
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fks
User


Joined: 04 Dec 2017
Posts: 30

PostPosted: 06.05.2018 02:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.

Last edited by fks on 08.05.2018 13:41; edited 2 times in total
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ruben87
Gravon Administrator


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1220
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: 06.05.2018 14:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi fks,

You can express your own opinion but I think its not wise to speak for others.

Greetings Ruben
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stratego
Chief-Admin


Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1123
Location: Germany

PostPosted: 06.05.2018 19:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, i thought the same and maybe he is not aware, that (beside usa, which is at the moment no member of isf) i know all in person, most for a long period of time.
and his list is not complete. ace is bsa / isf, ewing is stradev / isf and me who has several tasks within stradev and isf.
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overlord
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Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: 06.05.2018 20:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

fks is absolutely right on everything and he is doing well for saying all those things (and for the others : me , flame , major) .
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ruka
Chief-Admin


Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 187
Location: Koblenz

PostPosted: 06.05.2018 20:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overlord/orgateam, please finish the tourney or post an official statement, that the tourney is over.
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~~~° Das Leben ist kein Ponyhof °~~~
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playa1
Fortgeschrittener


Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 82

PostPosted: 06.05.2018 22:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

freddykrueger wrote:
hi playa,
i can monday 18.00 gmt
sunday is not good for me,sorry


Hi Freddy,

I can play tomorrow starting from 20 GMT. Is that OK for you?

Greets,
Tim
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playa1
Fortgeschrittener


Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 82

PostPosted: 07.05.2018 07:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

playa1 wrote:
freddykrueger wrote:
hi playa,
i can monday 18.00 gmt
sunday is not good for me,sorry


Hi Freddy,

I can play tomorrow starting from 20 GMT. Is that OK for you?

Greets,
Tim


20.30 GMT even better. Not 100% sure if I will make 20 GMT.

Gr. Tim
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freddykrueger
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Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 28

PostPosted: 07.05.2018 12:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can do 20.30 gmt
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playa1
Fortgeschrittener


Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 82

PostPosted: 09.05.2018 13:52    Post subject: Freddy - Playa1 Reply with quote

Freddy won the first game, tonight we will play game 2 (and possibly more...)
How are the other quarter finals going?
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acerimmer
Alter Hase


Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 725
Location: England

PostPosted: 09.05.2018 13:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

The org team only has 2 jobs.
1. They enforce the rules.
2. They remain impartial.

Having read the posts in this thread, it seems to me that they have failed on both tasks.

I agree with the posts from Stratego and Spion in this thread.

When in doubt listen to the voices of experience.

Rules are there for everyone.
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ruben87
Gravon Administrator


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1220
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: 09.05.2018 18:35    Post subject: Re: Freddy - Playa1 Reply with quote

playa1 wrote:
Freddy won the first game, tonight we will play game 2 (and possibly more...)
How are the other quarter finals going?


Hi Tim, Im waiting in half final to meet the winner of your match .

What most concerns me right now is that none of the org. team is posting about the tournament anymore. So I repeat Ruka's question: Are you still willing to finish the management of the tourney, Henry, Flame, Overlord, Major?
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