sammy

[art]

Sammy,
why don't you play high ranking players anymore?
The end of the year is near and your 1500 ranking is at risk?

Of your last 54 games only 3 have been higher than you in the standings.37 of those opponents are less than 1350

What gives

[unbiasbob]

I dont know what you're talking about Art. In the last 79 games Sammy has played 5 games of guys ranked higher than him. 5 games out of 79, wow what a ratio that is. Of course there are only 37 guys ranked higher and they could be very tough to find

[unbiasbob]

---------the following post will not be popular with some but is based on what I believe to be facts. I welcome any and all feedback from players-----------


Well Art in Stratego circles this is called "humping". That is simply seeking out low rank players for fear of defeat vs high rankers. It would be great if a new system came out that took into account the "hump" ratio or simply the non adq/Adq ratio. This new system would give more points for lower ratios and vice verse. Take Zach21 for example; Zach21 is a shining example of a non humper who plays anyone anytime and doesn't shake in his boots when choosing an opponent. Zach has the lowest ratio by far of anyone above 1600 - 24% Non Adq games played. I feel his 1636 rating should be around 1700 because of this. On the flip side I think Ace with his 150% Non Adq games played should be reduced to around 1700. NoChance and Gentleben should stay about the same with their near even 1-1 ratio. This would put those 4 in a virtual 4-way tie for 1st place I say. A tourney could decide the best player.

As you move down the list we see PsychicWarrior with a mere 10% Non Adq ratio. Surely this is worth a bump up. Sammy has admitted to avoiding him and has done so under the guise that he lottos. Lottoers are ez to beat and should be welcome. Clearly PW is much better than a lotto player. These dudes with sub-100 games this time of year dont belong in the list. As for Sammy, classic humper yes and he should be docked 50-75 points for it and I myself should be docked for my high hump ratio. If you look up humper in the dictionary Dozer's picture is there

others above 1500 with really good ratios and should be bumped higher:

fighter
Vobi
Ruben
sis
jugador_s
aakk
elmaratrixi
rapunzel
fonias
tableplay
flieger
ambiorix


Others with bad ratios and should be docked

termynator
panther
guru


clearly these last guys along with Ace, Sammy and myself are serial humpers. We cannot help ourselves. It's like a phobia where you need to look in the mirror and admit that you suffer from humping. Only then can we all heal.

Also as someone pointed out on the battlefield when I suggested maybe toughening up the ratio for challenge ranking: that player said no b/c this system illuminates and exposes exactly who the humpers are. I thought this was a very good point. Non humpers need to be recognized for bravery even if this for is one of the only places to do that. Lower ranked nons:

mondfalke - surprise surprise
berre - a serial non humper and class act in his own right
warlord - yes the lord is an all time great
count_floyd - yes CF exhibits non humping characteristics

let's give all these non humpers a round of applause

Here are some of the tactics used by some serial humpers:

1. The old Dozer tactic of sitting on a ranked classic game without clicking ok and pretending to be away from computer when a strong opponent joins the game. I have not seen or heard of this tactic being used by anyone besides Dozer but something to be aware of.

2. A more creative tactic utilized in recent times as described to me by a player. The old sit on an unranked game before clicking ok trick. When a weak player joins do a quick switcheroo to rank. In the event of a strong player joining just keep it unranked and rest easy

3. A most creative tactic is this one: be online during quiet times when humpees are known to be around. Upon seeing such players in the room and the absence of strong players the humper will sit on a game of rank classic again without clicking ok. If a strong player enters Gravon this humper will do a very quick switcheroo to a non classic game be it barrage, UL or Duell. This way he wont have to play the strong player in classic and when the strong player joins the humper will say he's only playing barrage or whatever.

[acerimmer]

Bob: I thought you had more intelligence?

Do you want an accurate ranking/rating or just something that reflects who someone chooses to play?

Your description only serves to highlight a players opponent and completely forgets the basic fact of what the friggin result was.

Under your guidelines the only thing required would be to play the highest ranked player as many times as possible to guarantee #1 spot. They could have lost all their games, but as long as they play a high player many times..... then they will be top.

You say "zach21" should have the same ranking as me because he plays more high players.
Now look at his results 2012 against me.......
He has 6 wins
2 draws
and 22 losses.
So his win/loss ratio against me is 22% win to 78% losses.
And this somehow should put him level with me?

An accurate ranking/rating is dependent on RESULTS. The more games played, the more accurate the rating/ranking figure.

Now let me just explain some simple facts about opponents......

Sure there are some humpers on Gravon but most players have a distinct pattern of when they play and tend to play people who play often at similar periods.
I for example tend to play late at night uk time, but hardly ever during the day. This means i play people like zach and psychic warrior much more than NoChance and skillgannon. This is because zach and warrior are usually around online at the same time I am online. Also Nochance and skillgannon are never around at night, just during the day. That's just how it is.....no alternative motive. I can only play the people who are online when I am online. Plus they have to agree to play me. Sometimes people just don't want to play me......can I help it if other high players don't want to play me?

[unbiasbob]

The Bottom Feeder of the year will be announced shortly after close examination of stats and games. Stay tuned to this thread

[art]

4 facts.
Ace is good
Ace doesn't only play the best players.
It is a fact that people will criticize you on your motive if you keep playing newbies. That is a fact.
Some people DO avoid you.


.
.
.
.

[unbiasbob]

The greatest achievements by Ace this year were his performances in the various marathons played:

Siyamak: rank 1184 - 12 Straight - 10-2 - ouch
Siyamak - 8 -0
Siyamak again 9-0
Siyamak yet again 10-0
siyamak again believe it or not 10-0
Gavroche 9-0 - lol poor Gavroche taking this terrible beating

58 games vs these sub 1200 players and there were 13 more games with others so 71 in all. must have been quite a challenge slam banging guys 600+ points lower. Then those poor guys disappear. I know I mentioned this in the thread Art brought back from 3/2010 when I referenced "warhammer". It's shameful to obliterate these poor low guys so they depart the game forever frustrated.

Yes that was 58 games and a 56-2 mark vs rock bottom players. Why not try that with a 1400 guy? Never would try because the mark would be far worse. I don't understand the fascination with stomping on bottom 5 sub 1200 players when you're a near 1800 ranker. I never saw GB or NC stake out newbies or Warhammers for marathons. It's all within the rules sure but it cheapens your status as "top" ranker. Sure you get results but you would look so much stronger if you abandoned this practice. Maybe I can find GeneralBobby for ya. when you look up humping in the dictionary marathons like this are illustrated. Next time I see Kiss of Death I'll tell him Ace is looking for a marathon

[unbiasbob]

ok what I think we need to do is get this thread back to the topic which is Sammy. Sammy is a humper of the highest order. There can be no denying this. His method is to play as few games with people ranked higher or even close to him as possible. Again he's well within the rules and his rights but it cheapens his 1500. I was thinking this was a UK thing this humping but that is clearly not the case as BlackSheep is from the UK and has shown himself to be the bravest of the UK players by far. I predict he will rise up and overtake Sammy and command great respect. Sammy's 89 non adequate games is an incredible feat when you consider that no adequates for him would be below 1303 and there are only 10 players below that level now AND those 10 players are not active at all. I think Ace scared most of them away perhaps sammy too. BUT this feat of playing that many non adequate games considering the circumstance is EXTRAORDINARY. I call on Sammy to write a book and how to accomplish this. Perhaps you and Ace could co-write this book called "How to Hump on Gravon" or something to that effect. Congrats

[acerimmer]

If you ever played siyamak you would know he constantly presses "continue" so everyone ends up playing him lots of games in a row. He did it with everyone. Not my choice. Look at his results.....always marathons with everyone he plays.

So what exactly are you wanting to say bob?
It was my choice to do marathon sessions? Look at his stats!
Are you trying to say that a 47-2 win ratio against him has boosted me up the rankings?
No that has actually brought me down the rankings. Even if you say 69-2 with all other low players, then thats still below what I should achieve and has resulted in my rating dropping below what it should be.
For games to destort the rankings then players would have to either play ALL low players or ALL high players. When a player plays people of all strengths, then you guenuinely get a good reflection of a players strength. If you look at the number of players I played 429 and only 71 were low players, then that's only 16%.
Compare that with 172 games against 1500+ players. That's 40% against 1500+ players, 44% against mid ranked players and only 16% against low players.
So what's ya problem?


Sure I play lower players......but that's because I play anyone. I know some high players actually avoid low players, but that's their choice.
I have more to lose playing lower players and very little to gain. (other than some small entertainment value, but when there arn't many people on the site, then it beats sitting around waiting for people to come online)

[sir_dagonet]

Bob, you give credit to 4 players for non-humping and yet 2 of them actively avoid playing lower ranked players. One who doesn’t chance losing to a lower ranked player because it will hurt his ranking and the other because he likes to play an open flag.

The players I respect the most are the ones with an average win percentage for their rank, they truly take on all comers.

Sammy’s win percentage is slightly higher than those with a similar rank, which shows he may have a tendency to pick and chose his opponents a little.

Your win percentage is considerably higher than those with a similar rank. You are one of the biggest humpers on Gravon!!

Ever heard the saying, those that live in glass houses, shouldn’t throw stones?!!

[unbiasbob]

Hi Dragonet great to get your input here. Yes I admitted in this thread that I have been a humper and am going to humpers anonymous. I was hoping that others suffering from this might admit they have a problem as I have. I am working hard everyday to discontinue playing non adequates. That's what this is all about plus not fearing playing someone ranked higher and doing so with regularity. Of course Ace cannot do this. I havent played a non adequate in 33 games so I'm trying to improve. In the case of Ace and these marathons, man there just aint no point to it; crushing an ant and driving them away from Gravon forever. Gavroche is so terrified that he sits on games but is too scared to play after that Ace marathon. In sammy's case he is so scared to play someone ranked higher than him that he has not done so in 50 games. This is just chicken little stuff. Sure he has a 11 game streak and a 1500 ranking to protect but come on. The Irony here is that the last time he played someone higher than him he beat gentleben so what's he afraid of?

In Ace's case it's so obvious that he butters up newbies in hopes of capturing numerous wins b4 they run for the hills. he looks for prey and pounces. In your case Sir Dragonet you have 0 non adequates so obviously you are another fearless brit that I forgot to mention along with BlackSheep. I think rufus is another if he's a brit as well.

Getting back to Ace, I would have never said a word if these marathons were against any of the low to mid 1300 rankers like Pueker, Blacksheep, jossy, hamburg, silvershade or rufus. most of these people play a lot and dont use timers and at least can compete and they wont be easy stomp ons like Gavroche, Warhammer, Siyamak, GeneralBobby etc. i say Big bad 1800 ranker lay off the bottom 3. Also why isn't Ace playing marathons of classic with tableplay recently. Is he fearing tough games against a guy nearly 300 points lower? I say grow a pair and play some tough games. what have you got to lose other than the game.

[stratego]

hi guys,

i think the current system is the best one you can find in the net. in the end
we try to copy a pairing software and the 1out of 3 is fair for all.

we should not forget, that only the top players have to take care, that they dont run out of the ratio. all others have more or less always an adequate opponent.

and the no. 1 is always the players with the most critic. i think ace will never refuse a game if he has time to play.

also its high time for an online tourney in 2013.

if we will change the system other effects will show up, nothing is perfect.
(even a tourney pairing software like swiss perfect has pro and cons)

greets
stratego

ps. sometimes privat circumstances does not allow to play more games
or other players. anyone who meets psychonaut knows that he is always
looking for tough players. but he knows a lot of players from live
tourneys and of course you play with your friends, no matter what ratings they have.

[unbiasbob]

Hey Stratego, someone has to tell pycho that he needs an adequate game right now to get back in the rankings or perhaps he knows this. He really should get himself a few adequates to get a buffer going into year end

Also regarding Psychonaut, I was far too hard on him and I'm even going to remove him from humper of the year after taking a closer look at his games. He played a lot of games against 1400s players who barely were out of range of being adequate. Most especially he played a bunch against Rave-1438, Bolivar-1455. Also he play the bulk of his non-adequates vs 1300-1460 rankers and those are never overly easy. Just look down his list of games and you can see that he's not buttering up and pouncing on sub-1300 players. In fact he only played 19 games vs guys under 1250 which is a very low %. He played Siyamak a few times and didn't have this "problem" that Ace did about him hitting start next round as Psycho never played more than 3 games in a row with him.

So humper of the year is clearly not Psychonaut. A new winner will be announced in short order so don't touch that dial

On the issue of Siyamak marathons: Ace point taken as yes that player seems to crave the marathons

[unbiasbob]

[ruben87]

Bob,

First I wanted to say that I am proud to be on the bump-list hehe . Thank you, it matches my competitiveness rather than my urge to have a high rating (I have this urge too and many have which is not a bad thing I believe).

I agree that the rating system on gravon is fair. Unfortunately there are mazes in every system, like laws, but also ratingsystems dont come clear on this. So you always have players who pick their oponents out. The system is always most accurate and objective with randomised oponents. Some players do pick conciously their oponents and it will boost their rating a little. I think its a compliment to the rating system on gravon that it only will boost their rating a little.

This kind of players you always will have. At the moment it is not what is was, its not extreme anymore. There is nothing more wat is wise to do about this I believe Dont bother too much. You made a nice list though and I do think you prove your intelligence with making such a list. Only there is no solution and that is not a big problem in my perspective

See you around!