ATTENTION SPION!!!

[delboy]

Hi spion i would appreciate if you deleted my duell game that i had today: ruben87 Vs DelBoy

Reason why: i lost net connection in a game which was even and we had not played that long until i lost connection!
Then after numerous attempts i couldnt get back onto the internet up until me writing this message!
I recently have gone wireless on my net connection and it seems rubbish because of bad timing connection losses.
Im sure ruben will be honest and be a good sport by admitting that this game should be deleted!

Im sure you are very busy man spion, but if you could do this favour for me then i will be very grateful

Cheers, DelBoy
_________________
He who dares...wins!

[ruben87]

I just noticed this post.

Well delboy I was up a scout and I was marching towards your flag. My chances were big I think. As you know 1 scout in duel often makes the different. So sorry but I dont think this game should be deleted.

[delboy]

hmmm i think you are wrong their ruben!!!
because a scout in duell means nothing except u find out one of my pieces!!
my flag was bombed in!
i knew which was your general and one of your miners!
my marshal had stopped your general from moving aswel!

What i am trying to get at is the game was wide open from that point in the game and anyone will tell you its anybodys ball game when one person is only up by a scout!

I have won plenty of times being alot worse down than just a scout!!
Plus, what was you going to do with your extra scout?.....chuck it at a piece of mine like you did with your first scout?

I believe you should agree to this deletion. unless you get pride off wins that you win by silly circumstances!

Think of it like this ruben...what if you was playing a game and you lost connection and couldnt get back on...and the game was even?... you would be pretty pis sed!
Or even worse...you was winning and you cant get back on and the person you played says they wont agree to the deletion of the game!
you wouldnt be too pleased

DelBoy
_________________
He who dares...wins!

[ruben87]

Delboy,

Firstly, if your flag was bombed my scout would come handy to discover one of your pieces, or make a remis in the endgame.

Secondly Like I said all my pieces where coming to your flag and my miner included.

I suggest the game will be deleted but we play another game with the advantages I had.

Do you know all details? I think we both lost 1 miner, You knew my general and I knew your last miner. And I was up a scout. And I had all my pieces at your side of the board.

I would like to prove that I would win the game in most cases.

[stratego]

hello,

the game will be not deleted till both agree.

last time a lot of unfinished games are in discussion. please remember
that a discon or other privat circumstance is no guarantee to get a game out of the results. even if the game was equal, please just ask one time.
if the oponnent doesnt agree, dont start a discussion.

reading the context so far i see no reason for ruben to agree.
(if you just take the game facts) of course he can agree but if not its
absolut ok and far away from beeing unsportive.

stratego

[ruben87]

Yes thank you Stratego, you are right. If I give the game away people can misuse this by ''faking'' a time out and dont come back when they are behind. And later ask or even claim to delete the game.

Delboy, I think it is your problem, I cant do anything to help your computer, maybe you should buy a new one. If rebooting cost your more than 15 minutes there is something wrong with your computer I think.

I dont like this kind of games, I prefer to play the games out.

I wont give permission to delete games where I was in an advantage position!

[giovedi]

Ok, what I understood so far is that you had a slight advantage, but you cannot definetly tell you would have won the game, right?

I wouldn't go so far to call you unsportive, but computer-crash's can happen to all of us, taking this into your consideration you might be the next player who'd like to get a little understanding...

Unless this game was for some unknown reason particularly important for you I think it would be fair (probably generous) to accept the removal of this game and start some sort of rematch...

Just my five cents...
_________________
Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter.
Try Again. Fail again. Fail better!

[acerimmer]

Sorry Stratego........you are dead wrong there.

Here is the English Dictionary definition of the word unsporting.

unsporting: adj. not sportsmanlike; not fair or generous.

The English dictionary definition of unsporting....CLEARLY shows that ruben claiming a game that was in a tie situation.......would be "not fair or generous".

Thus this IS classed as unsportsmanship!!!!


This is the biggest problem with Gravon.

The rules concerning disconnects are wrong.

The rankings should be about who is the better player.......not who has the best connection!

On meta this would not happen.......if someone was disconnected and the game was level........the game would be void........regardless of the wishes of the other player.

Allowing the victor the chance to claim an undeserved victory, only creates negativity and problems within Gravon.
Do you really want arguments and bitterness in both the gamesroom and in the forum???
Gravon should be promoting fairness and gamesmanship.........not saying "claim the victory" to a player who already has a history of playing dirty just to get wins.

Is this really what "Gravon" is saying?

If it is.......I think you need to re think this. You have gone over to trying to being very child friendly. Unfortunately this obviously does not include trying to "PROMOTE" an air of gamesmanship within the stratego community. DO YOU KNOW what the biggest message adults are trying to instill in kids through sport?

Sportsmanship and gamesmanship!

Like it or not.........how we treat others in sport and games is a direct reflection on how we conduct ourselves in real life. (See my next post for more info on this!)

Allowing a- holes the chance to claim games where they were not in a winning position makes a mockery of the game.
Ok......most of the time.....players will be honest enough to delete games where one player is disconnected and the game was in a tie situation. Unfortunately not everyone believes that this should be the case.

Most players play in a fair manner and would not wish to claim a game they did not win. To all those who try to claim games like this.........then you are below comprehension.
Fair enough.......if your winning and the opponent gets disconnected......then it is not a problem. Hell.........if I was losing and got disconnected.......I would not even bother asking for the game being deleted. But if the game is level (or if the player who is disconnected is winning) then it is only fair and just that the game be void and replayed.


I actually thought ruben was changing his ways.........but it seems not.....thanks stratego!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice job!

[cosmo]

hey rubins whats the lotto numbers for saturday in the euro millions ?
reason i ask obviously i wanna win millions and secondly it seems you can tell the future LMAO up a scout and certain to win HAHAHAHHAHA what a joke that is man in UL ive been down top 4 pieces and won so down scout in deull means nothing but hey thats just my opinion right but i bet 99% agree claiming the win is low man very low

[stratego]

hello,

ace, i think you misunderstood the situation completely.

its far away form beeing unsportive to take the win.

i think its more unsportive - if i have a discon and cannot come back -
to post it here and calling my opponent unsportive, if he dont agrees
for deleting the game. (and this is not against delboy)

during the last 15 years with internet and board games, i saw so many
situations who are really unsportive. for myself i give so many won games
away, just because its not so important for me to claim a win under
all circumstances. but this situation here is different.

first we have rules - second we have a 15 min come back time.
if all doesnt work, you can ask for deleting the game.

BUT: if you ask just do it - dont argue, dont bring the opponent in the
position that he is "unsportive" if he dont agrees.

at board games you can stand just in front of the flag - have the 10
highest pieces and the opponent just let the clock run down for a draw.
you can discuss it - you can hate it but thats ok and fair.


maybe the game was open - maybe the result would end in a draw
(and a draw its not the same) who will decide?
we can take the facts - delboy ask - ruben answere and between the
both players we must find a fair way - thats all. and it really doesnt matter
what others think about this game.

in the moment there is no other player in the world, who is so close by
the rules and arbitration than me. in addition noone forbears so many times to play at important tourneys - just to manage, organise and arbitrate national championchips or world championchips.
i think there is really no need to explain me what unsportive is.

at least - if you really think that gravon still supports unfair rules or unsportive
behaviour - then you didnt understood anything till today.
we - the admins - spend a lot of time every day, just to quarantee fair
sportmansship in forum and at board. mostly a unfair job - always
between two positions - but i think effective.

stratego

[acerimmer]

Hi Stratego

[ricardo90]

well said stratego.
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OWNAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stratego]

hi ace,

i think its best to hear the both players who are involved.
others should stay out of the discussion - even if it is a "family affair".

and there is no need to start a generell discussion. the rules are fair,
work well since several years and you can never look at an unfinished
game and decide who may win. (and no other game side has this
option)

lets stop it here - both players give us their meaning - thats it.
this one game isnt that important. taking the win is ok with me,
just looking at the facts. in the end its always a personal prob if you
lose connection. i had it - others had it and maybe you too.

it happends, i could beat my computer, but its never the prob of my
opponent.

for future problems lets take this rules:

if a player wants to ask for a deleting, he is welcome to do it here at
forum.
if the opponent agrees: ok - if not, or no answere within 7 days: also ok

in the case that BOTH wants to have a decission by a court of appeal just
post the game facts: date - room nr. opponent etc etc
oge and me will look at the game and see if the game was won, lost or
a draw. (if we are able to valuate the game)

other user should stay out of this discussion, unless they can help with basic
facts about the game.

thanks
stratego

[delboy]

ruben are we deleting this game or not???
i can not be bothered to argue about 1 silly game so just tell me your answer
_________________
He who dares...wins!

[spion]

Hi AceRimmer,

the disconnection rule can be very unfair. Especially if the player who gets disconnected was in a leading position.

But if games where a player gets disconnected would not be counting, many many players would start leaving gravon (e.g. by unplugging their network cable) when they are going to loose. That way would affect more games than are affected by disconnects and would be even more unfair.

The disconnection timeout rule has been invented to prevent that because it was actually happening. At the time the rankings began at Gravon, the timeout rule was not existing. Many players complaint about their opponents leaving a game when going to loose.

The only thing i was able to do about this was to add the timeout rule. Else i would have to take a look at each game where an opponent was missing.

I agree that looking at the particular games would be a good thing to have. But in order to do that i do need manpower. And even if we would have that manpower, a new problem could arise:
Players, who "get disconnected" if they are not in a leading position. If each game where an opponent is missing is analysed by some kind of arbiter and even games are removed from rankings, i can "get disconnected"in an even game without any worries because the game is even and will be removed. If i am in a leading position, i will keep being online as long as i am leading.

Think about giving the win to a player who is in a clear leading position when disconnected. But even that could lead to players "getting disconnected" if they are leading just to avoid an endgame where they could loose their advantage...

I guess there is no ideal solution. Most of the time, 15 minutes should be enough to reboot your pc, restart your internet connection or whatever else is necessary to come back.

Best regards
spion